<![CDATA[Forward Motion 411 - Graduate Life]]>Wed, 02 Mar 2016 13:17:21 -0800Weebly<![CDATA[Read This If Your 1st Semester Law School Grades Are Awful]]>Sat, 17 Jan 2015 02:16:28 GMThttp://www.forwardmotion411.com/graduate-life/read-this-if-your-1st-semester-law-school-grades-are-awfulPicture
The holidays are over and you have either slept or drunk yourself into oblivion and are now ready to see your grades. OMG. Whether you know it or not, your 1L year is a big deal. Just like they used to tell you in grade school, this stuff really does go on your permanent record. How you did your first semester is a very strong indicator of how you will fare for the rest of law school.

For those of you who took a peek at your grades and realized you are a stellar law student...just go away…you don’t need to read this. But if your grades were not so stellar, stay tuned.

You’re probably feeling pretty bad about yourself and about your whole law school experience right now. Please know up front that we feel for you and wish that everyone could be in the top echelons of their class. But that isn’t how it works. Before you give up and decide to quit, though, you need to sit down with yourself and have a good talk.   You have a few factors you need to consider before you make that big decision:
  • Everyone’s a Scholar. For possibly the first time in your life, you’re competing against people who are actually as smart as you. If you’ve made it to law school you were not the skateboarding dude who never showed up for classes during your undergrad. It’s more difficult to shine in a class full of overachievers. You may have to step up your game. Are you willing to do this?
  • It’s Not a Level Playing Field.  If you’re the first person in your family to attend law school you’re still in the learning curve. You have to learn the jargon, how to think like a lawyer, and how to write like one. If you were fabulous at geometric theorems, you can probably convert that knowledge to lawyerly writing. If you were a lit major, you probably want to find someone who can help you adjust your writing and thinking.  Good legal writing does not feel like good writing to a lot of Liberal Arts majors. Those lucky enough to come from lawyerly families have been using the lingo and been regaled with stories from law school since their birth; additionally they probably got help on their law school homework.  It may take you the next semester to catch up with those who had advantage; but don’t expect to really catch up to everyone. If you can live with this – you’re probably okay to stay.
  • Money Matters.  You walked into law school with your clothes on your back, a decent scholarship, and a hefty student loan. Your savings account was small or  practically non-existent. Don’t assume your more successful classmates are in the same boat. Many of those with financial advantage will surpass you grade-wise because their largess will allow them to afford study aids that will leave you forever in the dust. For starters, they could afford that prep class that raised their LSAT score. Now they are using their resources to purchase hornbooks, E & E books, and other review materials that you can’t afford. These resources let them skate ahead of you. This means you have a more difficult time studying on the level that they have at their fingertips. Of course, this results in them walking away with the CALI. Of course, you need to learn to live with this and hope you’re successful enough to provide this advantage to your own kids should you choose to continue on your path.
  • Your Personal Sh*$ Gets In the Way.  If you suffer from anxiety, chaotic family, high maintenance partners, poor health, or simple procrastination - the insanity that is called finals will be your nemesis. If you can’t get this under control, you may want to take a semester off and get whatever it is that’s out of control under control. Or quit. You can pick up some other type of graduate school that doesn’t require you to march on under a similar deluge of requirements.

Hopefully, this list of what can (and often) goes wrong in law school will help you to quit hating yourself so you can move on to the very important task of figuring out your next step. 

With the new semester looming and your low grades at your back, you have two basic options, both of which take you on vastly divergent (yet perfectly acceptable) paths. You can; 1) figure it out, tough it out, get back out there and take some names or 2) cut your losses and leave.  If you talk to anyone about your predicament at the school they will almost certainly tell you to tough it out and something along the lines of “We don’t admit anyone who doesn’t have the ability to do this.” While that is very kind and somewhat reassuring, staying may not actually be in your best interest.  So how do you decide?  Before you do anything there are a few steps you should take:
  1. Talk to all professors who gave you low grades (anything below a B: including a B-). You don’t really know what garnered the bad grade until you ask the person who gave it to you. Many students truly understand the subject matter but had problems with the required format. Subject matter brilliance can still earn you a low grade if you can’t adhere to the requisite format.  If your professor has a difficult time articulating why you did poorly, it’s probably a format issue. Look for a remediation class (many law schools offer these) that can help you become familiar with how to write to the required formats. Get examples of successful answers and get practice writing them. This will take help from a professor who is willing to help you succeed.  If it was a lack of subject matter knowledge then you really need to examine your willingness to study.
  2. Check yo’self before you wreck yo’self. Closely examine what your exam experience was like.  If you glanced at the question then looked back at the clock to realize that 15 minutes had already passed, there’s a good chance you are experiencing some test anxiety but not recognizing it as such. Whether you’ve always had anxiety or never had it before, law school tends to bring it out in people. The first step is recognizing it. The tough part is fixing it. Some students have suggested St. John’s Wort, a good stiff drink, a sexual pregame, or some excellent therapy. You really have to find a way to beat anxiety when your final is the sole determinant of your grade.
  3. Seek out additional resources. There may be resources for you to take of advantage of should you decide to stay for the next semester. Talk to Student Services, talk to the Librarian, talk to your professors.  Everyone’s job on that campus is to produce successful law students and I can guarantee that there are resources on campus that can help you, many of which you are probably unaware of or unsure how to access. Note: searching the school website is not enough.  Student Services is expert at shoring up students who need some extra support. Everyone in campus administration is willing and able to help you become a more successful student if you will just talk to them.
  4. Keep your personal business to yourself.  You are in a highly competitive environment. Never forget this. If you’re stumbling but choosing to stay, don’t confide in your fellow students.  Not even upperclassmen.  Firstly, it’s not their job to help you, and even if they really like you and want to help they’re too busy trying not to drown themselves. They don’t have even the emotional energy to listen to your problems, much less the time or knowledge to help resolve them.  Secondly, you’ve tainted their image of you. At most schools student provide you with the recommendations and job leads that help you land your first job and latch on to subsequent opportunities. Moving past your first semester bad grades must remain invisible to your peers if you want to optimize your future opportunities.
Decision Time:
Stay if:
  • You have a scholarship/grant combination that allows you to attend school at little or no cost. Most students who commit to adopting strategies to improve do so, and it’s a risk worth taking if you aren’t putting yourself into debt to take it; 
  • You really want to be a lawyer and are committed to seeking the help you need and using it. Remember that even the person at the very bottom of your graduating class will still be a lawyer. The first person in the class and the last person in the class get the same J.D.; they just won’t get the same job opportunities.  If being a lawyer is vital to your life dream, don’t give up over a bad first semester. (Or do, and figure out how to be more successful later.) 
  • After talking to your professors, you realize you had a solid grasp of the material but simply failed to provide exactly what the professor was looking for in the answer to that all-important final.  The law is ambiguous and subjective but the professor will grade your final as if the law were clear and objective. A correct answer will receive a lower grade than the correct answer your professor was hoping to see. You’d be shocked at how often this happens. Join a study group that discusses potential answers; or
  • You know what the problem was and it was temporary. Say someone important to you died that semester, you had a health problem that is on the mend, or you’ve realized you have panic attacks during every final but have figured out how to deal with it.  If you had a problem that you found the solution to, your next semester will be better.  
Leave if:
  • You just hate law school.  This seems like it’s not that important but the thing is, it really is.  Law school is an all-consuming, immersive experience and if you hate it, you will hate your life not only for the next 3 years but also your career as a lawyer; 
  • You have a very honest talk with yourself and “future you” is just not okay with putting in all the work and suffering that it will take in order to step up your lawyerly game. This is a perfectly legitimate choice; don’t feel bad about being honest with yourself and what you are willing (or not willing) to do to attain a law degree. Law school is grueling, and a law degree is most definitely not necessary in order to live a good and valuable life. Find something else that you are willing to work for, something you enjoy spending your time on, or any sort of project you are able and willing to bring something to. You only get one life, spend it on something at which you can succeed and thrive; or
  • After speaking to professors and analyzing your past semester, you really don’t know what went wrong.  You won’t know for sure, but if you have no clue you need to seriously consider if this is the right work for you.  Not everyone is cut out to be a lawyer (some of you are too intelligent and some of you….aren’t).  Trying to fit a square peg into a round hole is very uncomfortable for both the peg and the hole.

If you decide to stay, congratulations! Now schedule some appointments with your professors and Student Services and get back to work. If you decide to go; congratulations! You went through an important learning experience and are now free to explore some other options. Either way, you win.   

<![CDATA[Strategies To Turn Law School Rejection Into An Acceptance]]>Mon, 03 Feb 2014 04:20:01 GMThttp://www.forwardmotion411.com/graduate-life/-strategies-to-turn-law-school-rejection-into-an-acceptanceTurn Law School Rejection Into An Acceptance
Decisions on law school applications are trickling in and every week you find a new rejection waiting for you. Unless you're heavy into rejection, this is terrible news! You want to study the law and this is simply not happening the way you imagined. Is there anything you can do to stop the bleeding? The short answer is; perhaps. You might need to reconsider how you're looking at the law schools. Given the economy and the high unemployment rate reported by law firms, you may want to abandon your dream and look elsewhere. Regardless of where you are with all of this, the following ideas might help you get where you want to be a bit more efficiently:
  • Take a step back and think about things.  Rejection can be a gift (not a feel-good one, for sure, but still a gift) because you have the opportunity to be very sure this is something you really want. If you were headed to law school because you weren’t sure what to do next or you were simply following the money, look for other opportunities for which you may be more prepared.
  • Consider your LSAT score. How was it? Although 150 is 50th percentile for the LSAT, it is not a score that will get you into great law schools. If your LSAT was low, consider paying for a hard hitting course and then taking the LSAT again. The LSAT is offered 4 times a year (June, October, December, and February). Pick a test session and register so you have a time-specific goal and get studying.
  • Consider the schools to which you sent applications.  Everyone wants to attend law school at a T14 school but that isn’t very realistic. That’s why there are dozens of other perfectly good schools for you to consider.  But this is also where everything gets a little tricky.  You need to analyze the cost of attending a school that is not your first choice, the risk of attending a school with a lower Hire Rate or Bar Pass Rate, and your desire to be in law school right now when deciding to apply to a different set of schools.
  • If you only applied to reach schools, there is still time to zip out a few more applications. Head to the US News & School Report website. If you haven’t paid the $29.95 to look at all of their acceptance data, do so now. (It will be money well spent.)  Take a close look at the ranges for both GPA and LSAT scores and find the range where your LSAT and grades fit. Apply to 3-4 schools that fit perfectly within your ranges. Also apply to 1 school that is just a few points above where you are.  The deadline for most schools can be found on their websites and may be as early as February 14th or as late as March. Get this second set of applications in as early as possible for best consideration.
  • If you have your heart set on one of the schools that already declined you, take a second bite at the apple by applying to the same school but to their part-time (4 year) program. It will take you an extra year to finish but will be well worth it if your dream school accepts your new application.
  • Maybe that application wasn’t a very strong contender.  You can shore up the LSAT with some concerted effort however, a low GPA can’t really be escaped. What can you do?  Set aside your law school aspirations and find a law-related job. Work for a couple of years and then reapply using your stellar job performance and success to shore up your lackluster grades. This strategy has worked for many people who now call themselves attorneys.

<![CDATA[Making Law Partner]]>Tue, 14 Jan 2014 19:38:16 GMThttp://www.forwardmotion411.com/graduate-life/making-partnerTransfer Law Firms to Make Partner
After five years of toil at a Wall Street law firm, an associate was burning the midnight oil at his office. Suddenly, there was a flash of light and a cloud of smoke. As the smoke cleared, he saw Satan standing before him. "I understand you'd give absolutely anything to make partner," said the devil, "So I've come here to make you an offer. I'll make you a partner, but in return I will take the souls of your wife, your parents, your children, and your first three grandchildren." The lawyer looked strangely puzzled, and thought hard for several minutes. Finally, he turned to Satan and asked, "What's the catch?"

Making partner is the ultimate goal - and the greatest nightmare for every aspiring lawyer. You're steeped in educational debt, working your butt off, and hoping for the best while knowing that luck (both good and bad) at messing with your fate. As a rainmaker, you want to stay but know that many factors must fall into place in order for you to make partner. You may be on the fence; you're on partner track but you really can't guess which way things are going for you. Or you're a woman (which apparently can hold you back from making partner if you read the news) and have to worry about making partner as your opportunities are still not equal to the men's in your class. Any strategic move you make feels like it could be a deal with the devil.  Changing law firms may be your ultimate decision. 

A change in law firms may actually be a wise move as you work toward a partnership position. Your reputation may be able to help you bring business to your new firm but you need to take care to tend to the dual fiduciary duty you hold. As an attorney in a law firm, you bear fiduciary responsibility to your law firm as well as to your clients. Taking liberties with client data, proprietary information, or client loyalty can be seen as illegal activity as well as a breach of ethics. Activities such as recruiting other firm employees before you leave or lying to your firm regarding your impending flight  are also on the list of things not to do.  Refer to your contract with your firm, review the ABA Model Rules, and remember that clients belong to neither you (even if you found them) nor the firm as you make your plans for a brighter future.  And leave the devil in the details. 

<![CDATA[Unwritten Rules of Law School]]>Thu, 19 Sep 2013 17:35:54 GMThttp://www.forwardmotion411.com/graduate-life/unwritten-rules-of-law-schoolPicture
Law school is nothing like the real world. In law school you work hard, play hard. Wait. That’s a lot like what happens in the real world. In law school you won’t get feedback on a regular basis but when you do, you’ll definitely know where you stand. Umm. That’s a bit like the real world, too. In law school your group is referred to as a class. And that, my friend, is also the same as the real world. In reality, law school and the real world are fairly similar once you pull out the nature and the quality of the required work. Law school not only prepares you to think like an attorney, it also provides you a (not-so-safe) place where you can also practice behaving like a professional.  If you’re down with the unwritten rules of a first year associate before you graduate, you’re sure to be a shining success in the real world. 

As a law student, following the unwritten rules of a first year associate, don’t:

  • Be the class jerk.  Know your audience and don’t be a smart ass at all times: starting with orientation, continuing through social gatherings, and ending with graduation day. This isn’t a matter of political correctness as much as it is one of not coming across as verbose, obstreperous, oily, or kitschy.  Think before you speak and be sure you can trust those within hearing if you say that hilarious something that you hope to keep private.

  • Be invisible:  Law school is a time to start building connections and establishing your place in the legal arena. You may have family obligations or have to study longer than your fellow students but make time for social gatherings. To be sure, picking and choosing is important as there are only so many hours in a day.  But hitting a few parties, attending a few after class sessions at “the other bar”, and being present at alumni cocktail hours may do more for your future (and your grades)  than you could ever anticipate.  Once you get there, don’t be a wallflower. Put yourself out there and make sure you meet people and get to know them.

  • Be pushy.  You will indeed meet gunners and talkers during your law school career. Don’t be one.  Sucking up to every professor, posting each and every step of your law school experience on Facebook, and simply trying too hard can alienate you from your classmates and make your life harder.  If you want to get to know a professor better (i.e., hoping for a mentor) email her with a topic in which she already has an interest and see how she responds. If she isn’t interested, you’ll definitely know and be able to move on without a public display.

  • Be timid about your accomplishments.  This will become more important as you move into your career but it’s important to practice this now. For your whole life people have pushed the concept of losing with grace. It’s honestly more important to learn to win with grace. When you receive a compliment, acknowledge it and thank the giver.  When you win Mock Trial, go over and shake the hands of your opponents and sincerely compliment them on what they did well. This isn’t about swagger and it isn’t about humility. Shine proud over your wins!

  • Be pretentious.  Remember you’re a law student. And when you have a job, you’re a first year associate. This is not the time to yell at a secretary or belittle a paralegal during your summer internship (or even at your school).  Assistants are the ones who know the loopholes in any system and might be willing to help you out if you treat them with dignity and respect. 

Learn these lessons early and your law school years will fly smoothly by and prepare you for success in the real world. 

<![CDATA[Cool Casual Sleeve Cuff - How To ]]>Sun, 07 Jul 2013 19:37:52 GMThttp://www.forwardmotion411.com/graduate-life/cool-casual-sleeve-cuff-how-to]]><![CDATA[Snagging a Federal Clerkship - Which Law School?]]>Thu, 27 Jun 2013 16:23:26 GMThttp://www.forwardmotion411.com/graduate-life/snagging-a-federal-clerkship-which-law-schoolPicture
When people talk about getting a gig at Biglaw right out of law school, you secretly roll your eyes. That was never a part of your game plan. You have your sights set on a Federal Clerkship and nothing else will quench the fire burning inside you. Being in the right position to snag a clerkship is key to meeting your goal.  Federal clerkships (especially those for U.S. Supreme Court judges) are fabulous jobs for newly minted attorneys. 

To apply for a federal clerkship, you need to be on top of the application process.  The rules to applying are established in the Federal Law Clerk Hiring Plan but don’t count on a level playing field. As a 2L you aren’t allowed to apply for a clerkship until the beginning of September and the judges start to identify candidates to interview about a week later.

In reality, many of the clerkships are already gone by the time you send in your well-honed application. Judges aren’t bound by the rules and will sometimes bend them to ensure they snag a highly coveted intern.  Additionally, attorneys who are out of law school aren't bound by the rules (like you are) and can apply and be hired for a clerkship at any time. And you lucky law students are, again, the last in line.  Don’t fret, you can pull the same rank once you’re a practicing attorney.  No solace, right?  

How can you get an inside track to one of these plum jobs?

Your quest for a clerkship will turn on eight factors:
  1. The prestigious law school you attend;
  2. Your stellar grades;
  3. Your substantive participation in law review;
  4. Awesome letters of recommendation;
  5. Your clear and cogent résumé;
  6. Whether you hold a position on the journal board;
  7. An excellent writing sample;and 
  8. Your over-the-top cover letter.

As you can see, this is not an easy goal you’ve set for yourself. At the top of the list is your law school and it receives a very heavy weight in the hiring process. If you’re already in law school, you may need to transfer to a different law school to better position yourself. If you’re just starting out, make sure you’re in one of the right schools to start or you’ve already lowered your chances for success. You may have been surprised at the Top 10 list of law schools feeding the Biglaw employment market (i.e., placing at #14, Yale doesn’t make the list) so pay attention as you may find this list equally surprising.

Law Schools Snagging the Most Federal Clerkships

School                     % 2011 Grads Employed

Yale   (CT)                        34.5%

Stanford  (CA)                   24.1%

Harvard (MA)                    17.1%

Duke  (NC)                        12.7%

NYU  (NY)                         11.4%

U Michigan – Ann Arbor      11.1%

Vanderbilt (TN)                11.1%

UVA  (VA)                         10.8%     

Berkeley (CA)                   10.3%

U of Pennsylvania (PA)        9.9%

Notre Dame (IN)                 9.8%

Washington & Lee (VA)        9.7%

U Chicago (IL)                     9.5%

U Alabama (AL)                   9.2% 

William & Mary (VA)            9.2%     

<![CDATA[Biglaw Hires From These Law Schools ]]>Thu, 27 Jun 2013 03:47:32 GMThttp://www.forwardmotion411.com/graduate-life/biglaw-hires-from-these-law-schoolsPicture
A career at a Biglaw firm is fast and furious. Plan on working at least 50 hours a week, eating many dinners at the office, doing the grunt work on very important cases, having the time of your life (if you’re into this sort of stuff), managing disgruntled family and friends, and making a lot of money. The rewards are enormous and the drawbacks can also be enormous. If you’re a woman, don’t plan on having a baby during your first few years at your Biglaw firm – pregnancy can be a deal breaker with them.  In all honesty, you need to learn everything you can about working at a Biglaw firm before you walk through the doors of your law school for orientation. Make sure it’s what you want and also ensure you’re well placed in a national law school.

Big Law doesn’t consider all law schools equally when it’s recruiting for it Summer Associates program (which is typically the entrée into a Big Law career). If your sole goal is to work in Biglaw, you need to attend a national law school or just stay home.

Law schools with the best Big Law hiring track records:

  1. University of Pennsylvania
  2. University of Chicago
  3. Columbia 
  4. NYU
  5. Northwestern
  6. Harvard
  7. Duke
  8. Stanford
  9. Berkeley
  10. Cornell
  11. UVA

<![CDATA[FYI on OCI]]>Tue, 21 May 2013 03:25:52 GMThttp://www.forwardmotion411.com/graduate-life/fyi-on-ociPicture
As law schools around the country graduate the Class of 2013, everyone breathes a sigh of relief and thinks about their future.  If you’ve been keeping your eye on law school statistics, you know a lot of these students are also filled with trepidation. The job market is sparse and if you don’t have a job lined up on the day you graduate, you may not land that first dream job.

Sometimes your career fate is established during On Campus Interviews (OCI) - but only about 12.7% of all law students have the opportunity to feel this joy. Law firms come to visit and look for a match between what they have to offer and what you want.  It used to be a bit easier when what you want could be broader than a job. However, in the current market – the firms are pickier than the students because there are too many law students and too few law firms.

A lot of the work of OCI begins prior to the actual event. During the Spring of your 1L and 2L years, you’ll be invited to attend a firm preview. This is like a college fair  – you are cordially invited to visit each booth and the law firms in those booths let you get to know them a bit. You go away and, with your impression of each law firm, build a list of firms for which you would like to work. Using that list, you can then research the firms and continue prioritizing that list until the next Fall. At the beginning of Fall semester, the firms return to your school for the formal OCI event.  During OCI, you bid for interviews based on your prioritized list. When you make a bid for a firm, that firm receives a copy of your resume’, cover letter, and transcript so they can decide if they would like to interview you.  The OCI interviews last about 20 minutes each and are sometimes your chance to shine and sometimes the worst interview through which you will ever have to suffer.This is very much a job interview. Eventually you will find out if the firms you selected chose you. If you were one of the lucky few selected – it is for a Summer Associate position only.  No other guarantees apply until the firm actually makes you an offer or a guarantee.

The Summer Associate position is a chance for you and the firm to get to know one another better. In a best case scenario, you love each other and you’re offered a future job at some point to begin after your graduation.  These opportunities are golden! If you aren’t offered a Summer Associate position or, if after working there you are sure that is not the firm for you, you have a second bite at the apple during the Fall of your 3L.  But remember you should never let up on your personal search for your dream job since less than 15% of all law students are being placed through OCI. 

For those of you who have graduated, we send you our best wishes for a successful and lucrative future. May you pay off your loans timely and still have money for fun. For those of you hoping to earn a future juris doctorate we wish for you a good time, a great line, and a fine wine.  Hang in there.

<![CDATA[50% Fail February New York Bar Exam – But Don’t Worry]]>Wed, 08 May 2013 03:36:15 GMThttp://www.forwardmotion411.com/graduate-life/50-fail-february-new-york-bar-exam-but-dont-worryPicture
The New York bar recently recently released the test results for New York’s February bar exam and announced that roughly 50% of New York testers failed to pass. Let me repeat that – 50%!  I’m sure that makes your blood run cold if you're in law school in New York. How can half of the test takers not pass?  But, if you think about it, it makes sense.

There are two bar exams given annually. The first exam is given shortly after everyone graduates from law school (in July). More than 2/3s of these test takers will pass the exam and go their merry ways – to jobs (both real and pretend), LLM studies, or on the hunt for a job. The remainder of the students – those who didn’t pass – will study and retake the test a second time in February. They will usually take the two day test in the company of the Juris Doctorates that don’t speak English as a first language. The pass rate for this group of testers would be predicted to be lower than the first group because these are the people who did not make the grade the first time around - and people who may struggle a bit with the language in which they are being tested.

 It’s like everyone is trying to scare you to death. Don’t let them do it - you have enough to worry about already. When you hear facts such as this one, look a little deeper into the topic and find out what is truth. Yes, the bar exam in New York is a beast but more test takers pass it than fail, on the whole.  The overall 2012 pass rate for New York was almost 86% and New York isn’t even in the top ten states where it’s hardest to pass the bar exam.  If you are one of the test takers who didn’t pass the New York bar exam, consider perhaps prepping yourself and taking the test in another state (perhaps a state with one of the  highest pass rates) to get your career off the ground. Living and working in New York isn’t for everyone anyway. 

<![CDATA[Top Law Firms: Highest Grossing and Most Prestigious Firms in 2013]]>Sat, 04 May 2013 14:05:45 GMThttp://www.forwardmotion411.com/graduate-life/top-law-firms-highest-grossing-and-most-prestigious-firms-in-2013Picture
You’re getting ready for the OCI. Your suit is pressed, your hair is perfect, your resume’ is spectacular, and your transcripts show you for the overachiever that you are. Which of the Big Law gigs are the most desirable? And do you even have a chance?  Of course you don’t, but you can always dream!

It's always good to know who the top performers are in your field of interest. That's why we all love rankings. As you peruse the 15 highest grossing law firms in the country, keep in mind some of these firms hold associations through Swiss vereins; making it difficult to verify the true numbers. Oh, and if you want to see the full list of 100 law firms with highest gross revenue, including the number of attorneys on board, click the link.                            

15 Highest Grossing Law Firms

Firm                                                   # of Equity Partners              Gross Revenue                             Location

1-  DLA Piper (vereins)                                      462                            $2,440,500,000                              New York

2-  Baker & McKenzie                                       725                            $2,313,000,000                             Chicago

3-  Latham & Watkins                                       441                            $2,226,000,000                             New York

4-  Skadden, Arps, et al and Affiliates                 405                            $2,210,000,000                             New York

5-  Kirkland & Ellis                                            325                            $1,937,500,000                             Chicago
6-  Jones Day                                                   859                            $1,716,000,000                             Washington D.C.

7-  Hogan Lovells US (vareins)                            513                            $1,633,000,000                             Washington D.C.

8-  Sidley Austin                                               284                            $1,489,500,000                             Chicago

9-  White & Case                                              278                            $1,383,500,000                             New York

10- Gibson Dunn & Crutcher                              281                            $1,290,500,000                             Los Angeles

11- Greenberg Traurig                                       300                             $1,239,000,000                             Miami

12- Morgan Lewis & Bockius                             360                             $1,230,000,000                            Philadelphia

13- Weil, Gotshal & Manges                             195                             $1,228,500,000                             New York

14- Sullivan & Cromwell                                    170                             $1,184,000,000                             New York

15- Simpson Thacher & Bartlett                         193                             $1,131,000,000                             New York

But honestly, is it all about the money with you? What if you're going for prestige, fewer hours, or best working condiditons? Law firms get ranked in several different ways. They're ranked as Best Law Firms to Work For, Best Law Firms for Diversity, and so forth.  Vault can provide you with various lists of top 100 firms but we thought we’d round out the highest grossing firms with the law firms voted most prestigious as per votes by Associates (and, no, they could not vote for their own firms).

The 15 Most Prestigious law Firms

Firm                                                                             Score (out of 10)                               Location

1-  Wachtell Lipton Rosen & Katz                                         9.022                                         New York

2-  Cravath, Swaine & Moore                                                8.786                                         New York

3-  Skadden, Arps, et al and Affiliates                                   8.422                                         New York

4-  Sullivan & Cromwell                                                        8.420                                         New York

5-  Davis Polk & Wardwell                                                    8.095                                         New York

6-  Weil, Gotshal & Manges                                                 7.823                                         New York

7-  Simpson Thacher & Bartlett                                             7.804                                        New York

8-  Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton                                     7.691                                        New York

9-   Kirkland & Ellis                                                              7.509                                        Chicago

10- Latham & Watkins                                                         7.402                                         New York

11- Covington & Burling                                                        7.374                                         Washington D.C.

12- Gibson Dunn & Crutcher                                                 7.281                                        Los Angeles

13- Debevoise & Plimpton                                                     7.199                                        New York

14- Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, el al                                               7.134                                        New York

15- Sidley Austin                                                                 7.034                                        Chicago